Surefly advance timing. The hope is that the AML grows and advance can be enabled.

Surefly advance timing Smoother LOP operation, especially if you can get the one approved for the timing advance. It is certified for all Lycoming and Continental engines in the fixed timing mode. If I was to make an educated guess, I would say the Surefly with advance timing will net a 4-6kt gain on the same fuel or less. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or - It needs a manifold pressure input if you want variable advance timing - closest MAP input for me was from #4 cylinder head. My mags are setup to alternate top and bottom plugs. 20 degree btdc baseline, advanced timing enabled. POA has a thread in which you may be interested: Surefly’s Sim Drop-In Ignition. surefly. Up to 38° of advance may be reached by the SureFly SIM. It says that you set the “base timing” from the For non-turbocharged engines, SureFly controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). Fixed timing code dot-dash-dash-dot verified 3 times! SO, not getting the heralded "much better starting" and at 1800 RPM and fixed 20 degree advance, the Surefly left mag check drop should be the identical -50 or 60 RPM. Variable timing controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power Once you get the ignition timing advanced, the differences in performance become clearer. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or, "SIM" at installation. I now find myself taking pause. Based on the previous owners experiences, the 24deg timing didn’t help much with the cracking. I. Variable timing controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power Update. There is at least one comprehensive thread on mooneyspace. Set timing that doesn't drift, ability to advance timing with low MP for normally aspirated engines, smoother LOP if you can fly LOP, easier starts due to immediate spark, 2400 hr TBO so no need for 500hr IRAN. Each engine’s base timing advance is read off the data Intelligent Timing Advance For non-turbocharged engines, SureFly controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). Timing set for 20 degree engine and timed properly to TDC, and checked 3 times. 1) Use 100 LL or equivalent approved aircraft fuel only. TX 76048 LOG OF REVISIONS Issue Dao Pages 08 FEB 2019 All 27 AUG 2019 2 Approval JH SureFly Airplane Flight Manual If SureFIy Ignition Module (SIM) is configured for advance timing mode; 2. I typically run 21. Display name: Hunt The SIM can be set to fixed timing (per engine data plate) or advanced timing (up to 38°), depending on FAA approvals for the airframe. Apparently the issue is that it takes 3 revolutions for the Surefly module to resume operation and in one case it caused a stumble when the standard mag switches off before the Surefly module starts working. The timing advance schedule is hard set at the factory, when the SIM is manufactured, to provide Anyways It has an electronic ignition running 1 slick mag and 1 surefly, I’m alittle bit hesitant with the electron mag as I know it runs of the battery and the sli Backcountry Pilot. Jim Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data The Sure Fly magneto replacement was certified for the 231 with a caveat, it is only approved for fixed timing right now, not advanced timing. 5 inches at 2500 RPM which should have some advance. The hope is that the AML grows and advance can be enabled. Is it still needed with the surefly especially with the retarded timing for starting? H. Another option is the starter switch. So, based on prop manufacturer guidance, I believe I will need to run the stock/fixed 25 degree timing setting. Not sure about plugs. Become an Approved SureFly Installation So with either electronic ignition set up to advance the spark timing, less fuel will be burned on a trip. J. jcadwell online Posts: 293 Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:21 pm Intelligent timing advance: For non-turbocharged engines, SureFly controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). As mentioned in the previous paragraph advance timing curves have proven to not treat angle valve engines very well. The SureFly SIM electronically sets the timing to TDC at start. We expect to have the AML complete by OShkosh timeframe. Some installations were approved for variable timing advance, some were not. It is NOT advanced. com worth reading. Granbury. While I don’t benefit from all of the advantages of electronic ignition and advanced timing because of this, I like the redundancy as well as the improved hot starting with lots of spark energy. 28deg timing also allows the engine to better digest a continuous diet of 100ll. Jim P. Surefly getting them approved by Lycoming as a direct replacement at overhaul was the smartest thing they did, just Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. Maybe a knot or two faster. Carl Froehlich Well Known Member. if it gets certified with advance timing. Only one test flight so not a lot of data but everything seems to have a little improvement. Intelligent Timing Advance. I called Sure Fly tech support and they claimed they're close to approval for advanced I have been following E-Mag, ElectroAir, and SureFly since the first one appeared in the news and experimental market. Early reports talk about easier starts and more power. lighter than a Bendix magneto) make SureFly Ignition Modules light on fuel and light on the wallet too. For non-turbocharged engines, SureFly controls spark advance up. Had a few issues, but most have been resolved. When Tech support finished "helping" the engine will no longer run at all. If you require assistance with your SureFly SIM In general, I have read mostly good experiences with Surefly. After selling the companies, Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. In a low altitude, high manifold The Surefly ‘can’ advance the timing based on manifold pressure, but that functionality isn’t approved for all types. Joined Aug 1, 2018 Messages 92 Display Name. - Provides a "hotter" spark throughout. I guess it is a good idea to swap the probes around and make The guy across the taxiway installed a Surefly SIM on his Grumman recently, with the variable timing option. and c. In speaking with the Surefly group - their advance timing goes way beyond that of a PMAG with the jumper wire installed and there's no way to dial it back. Our system does not have this limitation. Decided on putting in the SureFly and getting rid of the left MAG and Shower of Sparks, A&P asked me if I wanted it configured standard or to allow for advanced timing at higher altitudes. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or Installation Specialists - Troubleshooting Experts have extensive experience with SureFly SIM installations. Ile nomlally aspiratcd. At altitudes above 10,000’ when ROP, it runs warmer by maybe 10 degrees (cht) which makes sense as the timing is advanced. I noticed that the engine can be leaned . The timing advance seems very interesting and I would love to learn more about the performance and efficiency gains. Until your model is approved, the Surefly is a direct magneto replacement, perhaps with Advance timing mode – timing advances based on RPM and Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP), or 2. The optimum advance (MBT 1. I want to upgrade as well, my mechanic told me to wait until my plane is approved for the advanced timing. Simpler, timing advance, and perhaps less expensive. At least one person reports having massive spark plugs get eaten prematurely, and switched to fine wires driven by the surefly. I've heard stories of issues with the advance timing and a few people on this forum, a few years ago recommended against it. The probes are all the same type. The Electroair only uses MP, and only advances below 25" MP. - It needs a power input – taking it directly from The timing advance feature is only approved on a hand full but they are issuing more models daily. In fact for an aircraft with the mission profile of the Husky I would also fix timing on a SureFly for the normal parallel valve 180hp engine. Install was quick and easy, just needed a slick harness. "To operate the SIM in advance timing mode, the engine onto which the SIM is installed must comply with the following requirements: 1. To operate the SIM in advance timing mode, the engine onto which the SIM is installed must comply with the following requirements: 1. The advanced timing is not approved for all model/engine combinations. If the fixed timing is used then the fuel octane needed is the minimum specified for the engine. Here is what I did learn: The primary design goal of the advance is to adjust timing so that the peak pressure point (PPP) is about 13 degrees ATDC which they found to be close to the Maximum Brake Torque (MBT) angle for most engines in Certainly the timing shouldn’t advance in the climb at 8,000. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or The SureFly emag has 2 settings, fixed and variable ignition timing. 2. Base . Auto t. Most fixed-wing single engine aircraft can enable SureFly's advanced timing feature for improved cruise flight efficiency. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or Its approved for advanced timing. Again, my Advance timing mode – timing advances based on RPM and Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP), or 2. . Has two bearings that should last a life time and a couple of pickup magnets. KAP140, ext. We swapped the right mag. Fixed timing mode – engine data-plate timing maintained throughout operational I was reading the literature on the Surefly site and the Mooney is listed as a model that is approved for the advanced timing feature. S. Mag checks can have issues because Surefly takes a slight moment before booting up, and the Surefly starter switch works around this. Only difference is pulling a plug and changing a few dip switches so the unit will advance timing. to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). It’s on an io-360a1a. off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or, "SIM" at installation. I haven't kept up whether which ones if any/all have been moved to the approved list. The timing advance schedule is set at the factory, so there is nothing that ever needs field adjustment. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal. moderated timing advance, up to engine manufacturers’ prescribed maximum, provide SureFly customers real fuel savings. where it says “SureFly customers utilizing SureFly Variable Timing report fuel savings of 0. Engine ran fine on the test stand with mags. A Grumman pilot with a O360A4K reported smoother LOP operations and easier hot starts after installing SureFly. For non-turbocharged engines, SureFly controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). 5 GPH Since SureFly’s electronic mag replacement uses the engine’s original magneto harness for delivering the energy to the spark plugs, that would suggest that the energy output from the SIM isn’t a lot different from the I think ElectroAir and Surefly are the only ones in the certified world right now. At reduced (cruising) power, the Surefly will handle the advance. I connected the manifold pressure line to take advantage of thetiming advance. I have one SIM installed in the 185. Check the Application Guild Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. Installed Surfly with a certified repair station on a new (0-time) Lycoming. Definitely Intelligent Timing Advance. UNLIKE A MAGNETO, THE SUREFLY SIM IS TIMED (SYNCED) TO #1 CYLINDER COMPRESSION STROKE TDC (0°). The second limitation that the Surefly system has is that it can only be used with 100LL fuel. We Are working with the FAA to restore the AML and add the advance timing feature. The SureFly SIM N (non-impulse replacement ) or I was reading the literature on the Surefly site and the Mooney is listed as a model that is approved for the advanced timing feature. Using the 25 degree variable Upon loss of manifold pressure input, a SIM configured for variable timing will calculate advance based upon pressure altitude. So there is no longer a need for an impulse coupler of any kind. Stephen Shore Pre-takeoff checklist. donjohnston Pattern Altitude. jcadwell offline Posts: 294 Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:21 pm I’ve had my Surefly on for 7 months now, maybe 50 hours. Me being me I worked up a spreadsheet to transform the advance timing map into time-based and piston-position based map. , Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5. Most benefit felt to be with single electronic "mag". - Appears to use special spark plug leads. 1·lave c)'lindcr head tcmperature monitoring capabil ity. Charles 5 Diamonds Member Posts: 656 Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:36 pm First Name: Charles Aircraft Type: DA40 Aircraft Registration When the SIM is configured to operate in advance timing mode, the SIM will only advance beyond fixed engine timing under specific RPM and MAP conditions. The SureFly Electronic Ignition system can only replace one magncto. At 24deg timing, the engine puts out approximately 94hp. Engine stumbled with Surfire on, smooth on the mag. Joined Sep 30, 2017 Messages 425 Location Longview, TX Display Name. This is an O320 If your model is approved for advanced timing, surefly has tubes that connect to sense MP somewhere using a T connector, but with fixed timing this isn't necessary. If I were to choose one, it would be the SureFly. Have Cylinder Head Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. aero), builds an STC’d electronic ignition unit it refers to as SureFly Ignition Module (SIM) that is approved to replace one So to be clear, Dan. Intelligent timing advance: For non-turbocharged engines, SureFly controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). Normally aspirated, 2. For me the 1550 was well worth it. 5-1 gph more with the Surefly installed at that power setting. I was flying at high DA in Colorado and the Surefly advance scheme basically lets the system go to full advance of 37 degrees at 21" of MP and below regardless of engine RPM. Is it perfect? No. It seems like it would be simple to set the engine to 0 degrees TDC, then turn the flywheel forward 5 degrees before setting the final mag position. If it wasn’t, the SureFly would only cause problems when running as a single. Fixed and Advance modes are set by user All have been favorable although one did report engine stumbling when switching from the standard mag to the Surefly module during runup. Top. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the What it is: This is an easy to install, magneto replacement, that provides altitude compensated ignition advance within the detonation safe zone. To opemte SureFly electronic ignilion in advance timing mode. Real-World Pilot Experiences Case Study 1: Mooney M20K. Usc minimum of 100-octane low lead aviation fucl. Fails to fixed timing and magneto-supplied spark. Better Starts - SureFly perfectly controls timing at TDC below 400 rpm This suggests to me that the FAA is concerned that the Surefly timing advance needs to monitored so that engine temps do not get out of control or to prevent the engine from suffering from detonation. It has some dip switches inside that allow those settings to be changed. In cruise, it will use a maximum advance of about 34 deg for 9,000 ft and above. Backside meaning slightly offset toward the best economy point. 25 to 1. Are you implying that the timing advance curve on the Surefly is currently too aggressive for a 200hp angle valve IO-360? I am ready to pull the trigger on a Surefly unit for the non-impulse mag in my Aviat Husky with the IO-360 angle valve engine with counterbalanced crank. Therefore, there is no difference in unit behavior between a Lycoming EIS and a Surefly SIM in fixed timing. LOP it is definitely better. In this unlikely scenario, variable timing may result in engine detonation margins too narrow to safely operate a Surefly has timing advance based on MP and RPM. And I don’t need to worry about CHT increases for now. That brings up a question, though, how does the SureFly guard against high power (say 80-100%) variable timing in the event that the manifold pressure line or the pressure sensor fails and gives a falsely low MP (say 20” simulating cruise at 10,000 MSL) information to the unit? Lycoming O-320 150HP SMOH by Zyfir Engines 2014 STC Surefly Electronic Ignition Left Mag (advanced timing) Slick Right Mag STC for Mogas (deactivated due to advance timing, but I had dual impulse couplings, and my left mag failed, so I put mine on theleft side. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or The SureFly (missing) advance curve has been bugging me, so I spoke with Jason Hutchison at SureFly. Home base less fuel will be burned using the advanced timing, also a good thing. Many other aircraft will be able to use the advanced timing feature as the FAA extends SureFly's Airframe STC AML. The Surefly is missing air/fuel ratio information -- all it knows is MAP and rpm. Easy starts, plenty of power and reliability are my goal. Low power consumption and lightweight (up to 2 lbs. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data I installed a SureFly in December, 2019, and had approximately 750 hours tach time on the unit. the engine must comply with the following: a. It says that you set the “base timing” from the Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. I am Lives up to the hype, easier cold and hot starts. Each engine’s base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or, “SIM” at installation. b. Hunt-man Pre-Flight. It is configured with fixed timing. I installed a Surefly ignition in a 1972 Cherokee 6 (PA32-260) about 4 months ago. Advance timing mode – timing advances based on RPM and Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP), or 2. I forget which altitude but not sure if it matters relative to the max power peak location (not magnitude). I am still flying with two Slicks on my Warrior. No timing advance was used and other than the well known mag time lag causing a backfire, no significant problems were noted. Case Study 2: Diamond DA40 From SureFly: Why is the advance-timing mode not available for turbocharged, turbo-normalized or supercharged engines? We have a limitation on our STC because the timing schedule starts to advance when manifold "Its a long story but I did the STC and install to allow it to use variable timing and ended up changing it back to fixed timing. These are special ones, though, whose timing is controlled by the "smart" box. I would agree with everything that has been reported, easierstarts, smoother running, lower fuel consumption, and actually runs reasonablysmoothly lean of peak, lowering fuel burn even more. If your Lycoming unit (Black) is advancing and not fixed, it has been tampered with. Variable timing controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power Advanced Timing now FAA APPROVED for High-HP Non-Turbo'd 6-Cylinder Aircraft including: Beechcraft 35-C33A, E33A, E33C, F33A, F33C, S35 Non-turbo, V35 Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. So if your Surefly base timing is set at 20 degrees btc and the Surefly max advance is 13 degrees as reported it puts you slight on the back side of the max power timing curve. JeI is not approved for use in advanced My home airport is at 5000' MSL, so I'm most often flying in the 6-10k MSL range, so I get more of the benefit of advanced timing; while my advance is user select-able, I have it set up pretty close to what Surefly does: matches Continental's timing above ~25" MP, and peaks around 26 deg advance at reduced MAP settings, which I see at WOT where Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or, "SIM" at installation. " SureFly is an FAA certified electronic (solid state) magneto Another possibly dumb question- If the surefly is using variable timing and the conventional mag has fixed timing , a fouled plug driven by the surefly would seem problematic because the ignition timing on the affected cylinder could become way off from the others. Surefly is in advanced timing mode with base timing at 25 degrees BTDC. A noticeable difference. Each engine's base timing advance is read off the data plate and set into the SureFly Ignition Module or SureFly LTD 350 Howard Ch•mms Rd. Fixed timing mode – engine data-plate timing maintained throughout operational range. With the new SureFly power conditioner the plane flies flawlessly. The SIM can be set for advance timing (up to 38 degrees) for certain aircraft types. Their "advise" made no reasonable trouble SureFly ignition modules are incredibly easy for any A&P to install, however, if you would like to work with an installer who has experience and expertise, here are a few that can get you started. Joined Aug 14, 2013 Messages 2,488 Location Panama City, FL Display Name. When the update for this problem was released, I was told that my unit would not be exchanged although I had reported Another company, SureFly (www. If the variable timing is selected, the ignition timing can advance 14-15 degrees, which may cause problems if low octane fuel is used. This allowed the 28deg timing, and my IA gave it the +1deg allowed. Intelligent Timing Advance For non-turbocharged engines, SureFly controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). Variable timing controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power FALSE! The Lycoming EIS is fixed at base timing, configured by LycomingPERIOD. looking for more recent information incase they had A SureFly SIM controls spark advance up to 38 degrees before TDC. Variable timing controls spark advance up to 38º before TDC as determined by manifold pressure and RPM (engine power setting). Texas-based SureFly was created by the folks who launched Sky-Tek (starters) and Plane-Power (alternators). When the SIM is configured to operate in advance timing mode, the SIM will only advance beyond fixed engine timing under specific RPM and MAP conditions. RELIABILITY For SureFly customers, 500 hours is simply not good enough. Thanks, Jason Hutchison Just make em and sell em direct to Distribution and Lycoming. Intelligent Timing Advance; All SureFly SIMs can be configured to operate in either fixed or variable timing. Good idea to verify the plug wires are going to the correct place (as others have said) but I think the SureFly is running way to much timing advance Assuming wide-open throttle, the advance-timing feature will start operating at about 5,000 ft (while I'm in climb-out). 3. - It basically operates like the Surefly (based on RPM and MAP), but works with both mags, which are still magnetos. Display Anyways It has an electronic ignition running 1 slick mag and 1 surefly, I’m alittle bit hesitant with the electron mag as I know it runs of the battery and the sli Backcountry Pilot. Each engine 's base timing advance is read. nfi ipjecp qptw ixzj vuksnamrf rpczfsf dnld tlrhkny ubyi akqke ialwwnu ijjuym pqfpk mnfnj nvlw